Todd: Hey, so Jeff, you have an MBA, or you're studying to get an MBA?

　　Jeff: I'm studying to get an MBA.

　　Todd: OK, why did you choose to get an MBA. You don't seem like the business type of guy. You're always talking about nature and travel and art.

　　Jeff: Ah, this Master of Business Administration in International Tourism, that's my focus, international tourism, is purely out of necessity, not really that I love to be a student or love studying but I think it's, in today's world, you need an edge to get a job, and I think this MBA will give me an edge to get a job in the future.

　　Todd: So are you learning a lot in your program? Is this a good MBA program that you're in?

　　Jeff: They say education is not burden, Max Lerner, I think said, "Education is not burden" but, and I do, the subject that I chose, international tourism is an interesting topic, and I enjoy it so, I am learning. I'm reading a lot, and I am learning a lot on the subject which is good.

　　Todd: I don't know, man, I'm actually getting a Master's and, I'm getting a Master's in Education, and I think it's a waste of time.

　　Jeff: Well, I never think education is a waste of time, but I think it's the opportunity cost: What you could be doing instead of studying, and I think that's, you really weight out the options of the opportunity that you're giving up when you're spending all those hours reading and writing, and if you have nothing else better to do then I think, well, then yeah, studying something you're interested in is a good idea. It's better than watching TV or playing video games.

　　Todd: True. True, but sadly I think most Master's programs, or most education systems are geared actually just to make money, and they have a system where they give the books, you read the books, you write the papers, but there's no real learning going on, and it's, in effect, I think it's a waste of time, but that's not the real way that people learn. They learn by actually doing things or having a challenge and trying to accomplish the challenge using any resource possible, and it seems to me that most Master's programs, MBA, Education, whatever, they don't really teach that.

　　Jeff: I agree with you. I think universities are now a business to make money and the bottom line, revenue is, this is what drives univerisity but I do think that there is active and passive learning like you said and I think there is room for both. (Sure) I think passive learning is good. I think active learning is better but I think it's harder to, it's harder to do. It's harder to get the, get the chance to do active learning, but I think passive learning's OK, as long as it's not all you do. (Sure) I think if you can couple them together, there's some passive learning, some active learning, I think there're good together.

　　Todd: Well, I think sadly passive learning, book learning, the reading and writing, it's cheaper to do so that's why univerisities tend to stress that.

　　Jeff: Yeah, but I'm, I think I agree with you. I think it is a little bit of a waste of time, but if you have nothing else to do that's any better, then I think yeah, education and studying and learning are a very good thing.